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I am new to the forum but I have been to C&C several times and have enjoyed it. I have never been during the “Winter” so this weekend will be a first for me. So what happens if it rains? Does anyone show up or is it just self canceling.
I would also appreciate any comments that you have on the new rules as they apply to my car. I have a ’93 MR2Turbo. Not a special car like a Ferrari, but certainly a very low production car. There were 2600 MR2’s of all types imported. Best guesses that I have see are less than 1000 were Turbos. My car has 81,000 on the clock and is dead stock but in meticulously maintained. No dings or scratches. At 2,600 lbs and 200hp it is capable of 145 and corners like a go cart. In short it is the 600lb gorilla of MR2s. I have had it in the show area and received several very nice comments. In 3 visits, I have never seen another one in the display area or even the parking lot. I also very seldom see a similar car on the road. I am more likely to run into a 360 Ferrari than another MR2 Turbo. Special interest enough or no? All comments appreciated.
@Pete J 15123 wrote:
I am new to the forum but I have been to C&C several times and have enjoyed it. I have never been during the “Winter” so this weekend will be a first for me. So what happens if it rains? Does anyone show up or is it just self canceling.
I would also appreciate any comments that you have on the new rules as they apply to my car. I have a ’93 MR2Turbo. Not a special car like a Ferrari, but certainly a very low production car. There were 2600 MR2’s of all types imported. Best guesses that I have see are less than 1000 were Turbos. My car has 81,000 on the clock and is dead stock but in meticulously maintained. No dings or scratches. At 2,600 lbs and 200hp it is capable of 145 and corners like a go cart. In short it is the 600lb gorilla of MR2s. I have had it in the show area and received several very nice comments. In 3 visits, I have never seen another one in the display area or even the parking lot. I also very seldom see a similar car on the road. I am more likely to run into a 360 Ferrari than another MR2 Turbo. Special interest enough or no? All comments appreciated.
The show often goes on when it rains, however much fewer cars show up.
Btw, regarding your car, you might want to take a look at this.
Phiberglass;15127 wrote:The show often goes on when it rains, however much fewer cars show up.Btw, regarding your car, you might want to take a look at this.
I showed up in My E28 M5 on 1/24/09 with a free car wash from mother nature on the drive up from San Diego. :banana:
That’s about what I thought and that is why I asked. Better to take care of it here than get to the main gate and suffer the embarrassment of being turned away.
Love my MR2. In 1974 I had a new 911(no T or E designation that year, just 911, 911S, 911 Carrara) and frankly, the MR2 just flat out performs it in all categories. I loved the 911 because that was about as good as it got for $14,000. Old love, new love. Gave up the old girl for the newer sexier model. :happy:
Cars and Coffee is going to suck now like really bad and if it rains tommorow no one will show up since the cars that can come are pre 1978 which is lame and there not bring their old cars in the rain
Pete J;15195 wrote:Max –
That’s about what I thought and that is why I asked. Better to take care of it here than get to the main gate and suffer the embarrassment of being turned away.Love my MR2. In 1974 I had a new 911(no T or E designation that year, just 911, 911S, 911 Carrara) and frankly, the MR2 just flat out performs it in all categories. I loved the 911 because that was about as good as it got for $14,000. Old love, new love. Gave up the old girl for the newer sexier model. :happy:
That is the difference between cars that are 20 years newer. 20 years of engineering advancement between your 911 and the MR2 is quite a time in the automotive engineering workd, especially in the last 2 -3 decades. Most sold their older cars for the improved perfomance and handling of the newest “lady.” That is why so many of the older cars are a rarity and not seen much. Hence the reason for encouraging these cars to show up for a gathering like C&C. Without a venue for those older cars they will become left to deterioation and lost to the world. Having a venue for something is the key to preserving it. Vintage racing saved the world’s great race cars. 30 years ago nobody cared what happended to an old race car and they were scraped and lost. Now they fetch a premium, and are searched for and preserved, because there is a place to use and enjoy them. You have touched on the very reason to encourage and promote the older cars over the newer ones. Now you may have a little insight as to why it is important to make those decisions to have rules. It is a shame the rules are necessary. I am the first to recognize that whatever car a person may have, it is “their” baby and it is “exotic” to them. However we are apparently in a position to have to have decrectionary rules. I think it is an evolving target and the organizers have yet to really land on a solution they will enforce. It is time to let it all play out as see what happens. There are places to use the “everyday” car, it is used everyday. We need venues to encourage and use the older cars – C&C is the perfect place to do that.
GregJ;15378 wrote:That is the difference between cars that are 20 years newer. 20 years of engineering advancement between your 911 and the MR2 is quite a time in the automotive engineering workd, especially in the last 2 -3 decades. Most sold their older cars for the improved perfomance and handling of the newest “lady.” That is why so many of the older cars are a rarity and not seen much. Hence the reason for encouraging these cars to show up for a gathering like C&C. Without a venue for those older cars they will become left to deterioation and lost to the world. Having a venue for something is the key to preserving it. Vintage racing saved the world’s great race cars. 30 years ago nobody cared what happended to an old race car and they were scraped and lost. Now they fetch a premium, and are searched for and preserved, because there is a place to use and enjoy them. You have touched on the very reason to encourage and promote the older cars over the newer ones. Now you may have a little insight as to why it is important to make those decisions to have rules. It is a shame the rules are necessary. I am the first to recognize that whatever car a person may have, it is “their” baby and it is “exotic” to them. However we are apparently in a position to have to have decrectionary rules. I think it is an evolving target and the organizers have yet to really land on a solution they will enforce. It is time to let it all play out as see what happens. There are places to use the “everyday” car, it is used everyday. We need venues to encourage and use the older cars – C&C is the perfect place to do that.I have to disagree at least in some part. C&C has never been exclusively about preserving older cars in my experience. It has been about sharing the enthusiasm for all things automotive. I have enjoyed being able to walk up to the owner of a 250 TR or a Subaru WRX and share a conversation about the unique aspects of their vehicle with equal ease. C&C is about people who love cars, not just cars. That is why they gather at ungodly hours, rain or shine.
Yes it is nice to see the old cars, but newer cars are a part of it as well. The cars that should be on the paddock are those that are engineered or artfully designed and thus are unique in some respect. Every era of autos has them.
I am sorry to say the my 911 is not one of them. It turned out to be one of the worst of its breed, like many of the cars from the emissions and bumper transition era. The engine was full of faults compared with earlier and later examples(fuel line separation being the most hazardous). The metal work was very prone to corrosion, and the chassis, like all 911’s of the period took a delft hand to master. I short, the 1974 cars did little to endear themselves to their owners, but they were still Porsche’s and as such great fun to drive. Just not much fun to own. I am and always will be a Porsche fan, but all Porsche’s do not deserve to be preserved. Every marque has it’s share of dogs.
By comparison my MR2 is a engineering tour de force for the Toyota engineers. Near perfect front to rear balance, achieved by careful placement and unique engineering solutions, i.e. gas tank located in the console between the driver and passenger seat, electrically driven variable power steering, engine developing 100hp per liter, power to weight ratio of 1 hp/ 130 lbs. and no cup holder. In short a drivers car. In point of fact, this car exceeds the engineering specifications of the first Porsche Boxters in every category but had ceased production well before the Porsche engineers began the design work. Unfortunately this car is not particularly appreciated for what it is out side of a small community. I am not complaining, because until I came to acquire one I was not particularly enamored with the car. The 1000 or so ’93 turbo’s that were imported are becoming rather rare in excellent original condition. Most have either been thrashed or modified. Perhaps in another 10 years or so they will be recognized for the unique autos that they are. Hmmm, sounds like your criteria for preservation. The unique cars of today are the rare cars of tomorrow.
Having said that, I really don’t care that much if I get to share this from the display lot or the spectator lot. I still enjoy attending and will park my baby in the spectator lot, because I enjoy car people in general. I know that C&C will continue to be about car people first and cars second no matter what the rules. Those who attend will not have it any other way.
Incidentally, today there were only a couple of unusual cars and with the exception of a couple of Alfa’s, they were reproduction/kit cars. The rest were all cars of current vintage. Mini’s, GT-R’s, WRX’s, Mustangs and a couple of Porsche’s. None of which fit the new rules. We still had a good time. A few nice people to chat with. The cars were not the center of attention, but cars were the topic of conversation.
I am certain that the rules will continue to be a bone of contention, but I for one don’t care that much. I will discuss it at length, but I will continue to attend and have a good time. That is the ultimate goal.
Pete J;15384 wrote:I have to disagree at least in some part. C&C has never been exclusively about preserving older cars in my experience. It has been about sharing the enthusiasm for all things automotive. I have enjoyed being able to walk up to the owner of a 250 TR or a Subaru WRX and share a conversation about the unique aspects of their vehicle with equal ease. C&C is about people who love cars, not just cars. That is why they gather at ungodly hours, rain or shine.Yes it is nice to see the old cars, but newer cars are a part of it as well. The cars that should be on the paddock are those that are engineered or artfully designed and thus are unique in some respect. Every era of autos has them.
I am sorry to say the my 911 is not one of them. It turned out to be one of the worst of its breed, like many of the cars from the emissions and bumper transition era. The engine was full of faults compared with earlier and later examples(fuel line separation being the most hazardous). The metal work was very prone to corrosion, and the chassis, like all 911’s of the period took a delft hand to master. I short, the 1974 cars did little to endear themselves to their owners, but they were still Porsche’s and as such great fun to drive. Just not much fun to own. I am and always will be a Porsche fan, but all Porsche’s do not deserve to be preserved. Every marque has it’s share of dogs.
By comparison my MR2 is a engineering tour de force for the Toyota engineers. Near perfect front to rear balance, achieved by careful placement and unique engineering solutions, i.e. gas tank located in the console between the driver and passenger seat, electrically driven variable power steering, engine developing 100hp per liter, power to weight ratio of 1 hp/ 130 lbs. and no cup holder. In short a drivers car. In point of fact, this car exceeds the engineering specifications of the first Porsche Boxters in every category but had ceased production well before the Porsche engineers began the design work. Unfortunately this car is not particularly appreciated for what it is out side of a small community. I am not complaining, because until I came to acquire one I was not particularly enamored with the car. The 1000 or so ’93 turbo’s that were imported are becoming rather rare in excellent original condition. Most have either been thrashed or modified. Perhaps in another 10 years or so they will be recognized for the unique autos that they are. Hmmm, sounds like your criteria for preservation. The unique cars of today are the rare cars of tomorrow.
Having said that, I really don’t care that much if I get to share this from the display lot or the spectator lot. I still enjoy attending and will park my baby in the spectator lot, because I enjoy car people in general. I know that C&C will continue to be about car people first and cars second no matter what the rules. Those who attend will not have it any other way.
Incidentally, today there were only a couple of unusual cars and with the exception of a couple of Alfa’s, they were reproduction/kit cars. The rest were all cars of current vintage. Mini’s, GT-R’s, WRX’s, Mustangs and a couple of Porsche’s. None of which fit the new rules. We still had a good time. A few nice people to chat with. The cars were not the center of attention, but cars were the topic of conversation.
I am certain that the rules will continue to be a bone of contention, but I for one don’t care that much. I will discuss it at length, but I will continue to attend and have a good time. That is the ultimate goal.
I am affraid you miss the point completely. Yes, the people are the main point, people with interesting CARS, a common bond. I have been a part of C&C since the inception and I believe the gathering was started and perpectuated by CAR GUYS getting together to share their intereing CARS. The C&C provides a venue for intresting cars, young and old that has always ben a priority. Without those type of places to take the cars their desirablity wanes and their preservation suffers. I dare say this is very true of the modern super cars as well. I think if you take the time to read the latest considerations by the organizers they have only stated that the 1978 date is a consideration, not a hard fast rule.
GregJ
Greg;15392 wrote:I am afraid you miss the point completely. Yes, the people are the main point, people with interesting CARS, a common bond. I have been a part of C&C since the inception and I believe the gathering was started and perpetuated by CAR GUYS getting together to share their interring CARS. The C&C provides a venue for interesting cars, young and old that has always Ben a priority. Without those type of places to take the cars their desirability wanes and their preservation suffers. I dare say this is very true of the modern super cars as well. I think if you take the time to read the latest considerations by the organizers they have only stated that the 1978 date is a consideration, not a hard fast rule.Greg
Greg – I got your point and I did read the new “rule” carefully. I think you hit the nail on the head with “people with interesting Cars”. That is such an nebulous concept. My MR2 is interesting to a number of people as a unique automotive achievement and you can tell that I am passionate about it. I also know that it is not a highly appreciated vehicle. My point is that the idea of “interesting cars” is a rapidly moving target for admissions “rules”. Perhaps what Jack Sparrow said in Pirates of the Caribbean applies here. “They are not so much rules as more like guidelines”. I also assert that just because a car is 30 years old, it is not necessarily interesting. Consider the person who shows up in a perfectly restored Pinto or Gremlin or other grocery getter. Boy is that a narrow field of interest. Should they be put on the front row just because the car is older? Personally, I would turn them away, but now they have argument to be placed.
I know that for now the MR2 will not be accepted. That’s OK by me. I only use it as a point to highlight the illusion of central position that people tend to believe. Each of us tends to believe our thoughts represent the majority and that others share our experiences, likes and dislikes. In reality, each of us is entirely different because we have radically different histories. That give us a unique perspective on the world, thus our perception that our opinions represent the average majority is an illusion.
The organizers are fully entitled to set the guidelines as they see fit and accept or reject based on their personal preferences. That is the nature of the beast. Unfortunately they are trying to codify those guidelines and that creates a different beast. Once they put the intentions in writing then we as participants are entitle to discuss those restrictions and choices ad nausium if we choose. Some of the fun of cars is comparative discussion. Everyone has their favorites and that diversity is what drives the community. Having written guidelines it tantamount to engaging in discussion about what is the “best car”. There is no such thing and it is the spark of argument and injured egos. Recognize this and I am sure you will understand amount of discussion that this subject has generated.
Is a Kit Car interesting? or my Datsun 710 interesting?
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