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i wouldn’t call myself an old timer, but i did attend many of the crystal cove events. i still think those were the best- being across the street from the ocean, driving down pch to get there, cool summer mornings. heaven for car guys.
anyway, from my perspective, good luck trying to apply an “interesting car” standard. i think some of the most interesting cars aren’t even recognized as interesting by most people. examples: the mid-’90s 8 series bmw with the M5 engine conversion. 99% of the people who walk by that car don’t recognize it for what it is- a rare car that someone has poured a lot of time and money into.
or the 10 year old generic nissan sedan that someone had stuffed a skyline engine into (at least i believe it was a skyline). it was “in progress” (read: very rough) but i found it interesting because i had never seen anything like it. to the other guys walking by, they probably thought the car was completely out of place.
a porsche 914-6? very rare and cool car in my book, others may see it as too close to a 914 to mean much.
a ’95 M3 “LTW”? most people would say it’s just an M3 with a big wing, but if you know what you’re looking at it is a rare M3 that bmw sold to racers.
and i’m sure that i walk by a bunch of other cars that i don’t particularly care about, but if i knew what made them unique i would be impressed.
to sum up, i think “interesting” or “unique” means too many things to people.
to me, the best solution would be getting a bigger display area. until that happens, i will just keep showing up early.
there, now we’re up to $1.02.
You are all welcome to come to our show!! We have 900 spots and welcome all marques, in any numbers. Old classics, new exotics and works in progress. We have a DJ, three restaurants serving coffee and breakfast and lots of bathrooms. For our meet, its about the people, new friends and yeah the cars are nice too!hellosmile
e39 ///M Power, those are all perfect examples of the kinds of cars that do belong. Those are the kinds of cars I love to see every week. Those might even be corral-worthy on featured marque day. The “interesting car standard” has more to do with clubs or groups showing up en masse with fleets of new sporty cars that aren’t nearly as interesting.
The standard shouldn’t be whether or not the car is interesting to you (as in any single person reading this), but whether or not it’s interesting to me. No, I kid. The owner of a car coming to the show should by now have some perspective on whether or not the car will be interesting to anyone outside their group, the other 95% of the attendees there each week. If you see other show goers lifting an eyebrow or sneering, chances are you should park in the spectator lot.
OMG, I just had a brilliant idea. Well, another one at any rate. 😀 We’ll have a panel of nine judges standing at the entrance on Saturday mornings giving each car a thumbs up or thumbs down. If 5 or more vote it in, the owner parks in the show lot. If 5 or more vote it down, they drag the owner out and point and laugh at him. The cars voted out will be parked on the street outside the spectator lot so others coming in can judge for themselves whether or not it’s worth trying to get in themselves. The first few weeks will be slow, but as time goes by people will figure it out. I can’t see how anyone will have a single issue with any of that. 😉
frank4cars;14720 wrote:We’ll have a panel of nine judges standing at the entrance on Saturday mornings giving each car a thumbs up or thumbs down. If 5 or more vote it in, the owner parks in the show lot. If 5 or more vote it down, they drag the owner out and point and laugh at him.you might be on to something… maybe a couple of local celebrity judges each week, crowds gathering to cheer or boo the judges’ decisions, the “u-turn of shame” for those rejected… it could be fun.
The show ended up being a mess, but there were no fights or anything, thank God. Dozens of great cars had to be turned away as the lot filled up by 7. I think the consensus in talking with many of the people behind the show is that the groups that are coming are the real problem. Nobody minds seeing any single Mustang or S2000 coming into the show lot. It’s the large groups coming in that are messing things up. Rather than just showing up en masse, request the featured marque corral or if you don’t want to wait for that and choose to just come to enjoy the show, park in the spectator lot. Whether it’s Mustangs or Lambos, don’t start a thread on your forum rallying the troops to show up at PAG without getting permission or without telling everyone in your group to be respectful in how you drive into and out of the area and in terms of where you park, namely in the spectator lot.
Hi. This is my first post. I went to the event today for the first time. When I first arrived I was in heaven, seeing amazing cars all around me as I drove past the lots to get to the spectator parking. Once I walked to the show lot I was quit dissapointed. I liked seeing the group of NSX’s in the front but as I walked around I ended up seeing S2000’s EVERYWHERE… I see those in my school parking lot every day. I saw some camaros that I could even afford as a college student and one of them even had a huge dent on the side…. I don’t think I would ever see that in a show. There were a lot of great cars though. I was in love with that black carrera gt that was there today. And the guy was leaving as I was taking pictures so I was able to record the start up and exhaust…. Mmmmmm…
I’m hoping that this was just because of the NSX day so I will for sure be going again next Saturday. A lot of nice people out there.
I would like to register my complete agreement with frank4cars’ post.
I arrived at Ford PAG at 6:45 this morning in my 1966 Alfa, waited in line to get in, and got one of the last few spaces. When I got there, it looked like a Honda dealer’s lot! All you people who own new cars – I don’t want to hurt your feelings, and I think it’s great that you are auto enthusiasts – but no one is interested in seeing row after row of cars that can be viewed everyday in any Ralphs parking lot in OC.
tbtak: I respect your opinion, and agree that what makes C&C great is that there isn’t someone at the gate who decides who should and who shouldn’t get in. However, any self-regulated system will only function as long as its participants display some common sense.
I think it was just a one shot deal as far as all the Honda’s today, I really don’t think you’ll see that kind of turn-out again for a long time.
I really liked seeing all the NSX’s thats a great car.
🙂@frank4cars 14711 wrote:
Very funny, Jason. I didn’t include you in the group, but I understand your sentiments. The issue is that the newcomers are taking over and forcing the old timers (like me I guess) out. That isn’t right. If they want to meet and show off their cars, they shouldn’t take over an existing show. The guys who started the show and who have been attending for several years deserve some respect. Many of them have stopped coming because the lot has been filling up with more and more of these kinds of cars. If that trend continues, the budget performance and tuner groups would be the only ones at the show every week and there wouldn’t be a Cars and Coffee anymore.
Think of it like this: Imagine your friend opens a burger joint so you guys can hang out at your own place. It gets really popular. All of your friends know this is the place to be. You love hanging out with your friends and eating the great burgers. News starts to travel about this amazing burger place. Before long the crowds get huge and you can hardly get a seat anymore. It even starts attracting senior citizens that like to show up early. They take all of the seats and stay all night. Before long they ask the owner to start playing different music and offering different menu items. You guys stop going because it’s always too crowded and you don’t like the new menu. This isn’t right. Your friend opened the shop to cater to his friends, not these old folks, but they are customers and deserve a seat, right? Because you guys have stopped coming your buddy doesn’t like working anymore and considers shutting the place down.
Your buddy has the right to enforce the “We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody” sign on the door. He didn’t open this place for them, he did it so he could hang with you guys and give you guys a place to meet and eat. If the old folks don’t like the menu, they can go to another restaurant down the street. There is no good reason for them to ask for the owner to change what he does and does well. There were plenty of people who liked things just the way they were and didn’t start demanding changes. It would be perfectly fine for your buddy to say, thanks for stopping in but we don’t serve that here, try the place down the road.
The guys who started Cars and Coffee are the burger place owner. We are their friends. You can’t muscle in and try to make yourself at home at somebody else’s party. That is the quickest way to get the show shut down. If the people they opened the shop for aren’t happy and stop coming, there is no reason to keep it going anymore. I’m only asking that the newer attendees realize that they might not be in charge just because they have numbers and enthusiasm. It’s not their property and they need to mind the wishes of the founders.
I like your burger joint analogy! In some ways it applies, in others its a stretch in that this is not an officially organized event. Maybe there should be more oraganization.
I went this morning, overall it was still a great show despite the ridiculous amount of S2000’s. But, I can see where some changes can be made.
If a marque wants to come to the show then they should get official approval. And then there should be a certain spot in the parking lot designated for that model. Once that area is full then thats it for that particular marque. That back alley way could be a great spot for this……
You could then have a VIP area, a small block of parking spaces dedicated to the especially rare cars. That way if something truly special shows up late, there will a few spots reserved for him/her.
That being said, I was especially watchful today after my discussions on this forum. Having been a few times I noticed a few things. First, there are a lot of regulars. I would say nearly half of the cars at the show (not including the Hondas) were cars that are always at the show. Maybe even more than half, closer to 70% are regulars. If this show is truly about diversity then maybe the regulars should concede the fact that spectators do not always want to see the same cars. That is why your burger analogy is a little flawed. In reality, its more like a group of guys found a delicious burger stand and decided it was “their” burger stand. As time went on, word got out about this delicious burger stand and others wanted to come and enjoy the great burgers which of course made the original burger eaters grumpy because sometimes, someone new got a burger but they did not.
But, I submit this to you. Maybe its not time to be more picky with the parking lot. Maybe its time to find a bigger parking lot and better area for the show now that things are growing. What do you do with burger stand that gets really popular? Turn the burger stand into a burger shack!
There has to be a big parking lot somewhere with a starbucks and McDonalds in it that would just love to have hundreds of hungry and thirsty patrons milling around.
If we are all truly enthusiasts then we should look for a way to make everyone happy and the answer might just be finding a better and bigger location.
Jason
JBone;14740 wrote:I like your burger joint analogy! In some ways it applies, in others its a stretch in that this is not an officially organized event. Maybe there should be more oraganization.I went this morning, overall it was still a great show despite the ridiculous amount of S2000’s. But, I can see where some changes can be made.
If a marque wants to come to the show then they should get official approval. And then there should be a certain spot in the parking lot designated for that model. Once that area is full then thats it for that particular marque. That back alley way could be a great spot for this……
You could then have a VIP area, a small block of parking spaces dedicated to the especially rare cars. That way if something truly special shows up late, there will a few spots reserved for him/her.
That being said, I was especially watchful today after my discussions on this forum. Having been a few times I noticed a few things. First, there are a lot of regulars. I would say nearly half of the cars at the show (not including the Hondas) were cars that are always at the show. Maybe even more than half, closer to 70% are regulars. If this show is truly about diversity then maybe the regulars should concede the fact that spectators do not always want to see the same cars. That is why your burger analogy is a little flawed. In reality, its more like a group of guys found a delicious burger stand and decided it was “their” burger stand. As time went on, word got out about this delicious burger stand and others wanted to come and enjoy the great burgers which of course made the original burger eaters grumpy because sometimes, someone new got a burger but they did not.
But, I submit this to you. Maybe its not time to be more picky with the parking lot. Maybe its time to find a bigger parking lot and better area for the show now that things are growing. What do you do with burger stand that gets really popular? Turn the burger stand into a burger shack!
There has to be a big parking lot somewhere with a starbucks and McDonalds in it that would just love to have hundreds of hungry and thirsty patrons milling around.
If we are all truly enthusiasts then we should look for a way to make everyone happy and the answer might just be finding a better and bigger location.
Jason
The problem with finding a new location is that the event is put on and hosted by FORD motor company. If they move the show somewhere else they lose the free exposure they get each weekend by playing host. They don’t want to move. It is their show. Don’t get me wrong. FORD has been a great and wonderful host. I hate to even say FORD is the host, as it is individuals, namely John Clinard and Freeman Thomas, who have been the great hosts, and not some global corporation. Suggestions have been made plenty of times to move the show to another, larger facility, but we have been told the show is about being in “this lot,” this lot being the FORD/MAZDA PAG Headquarters.
Cars and Coffee is in their house, and when you visits someone’s house, you follow their rules. If you don’t like their rules then don’t come over. Have your party at someone else’s house. I am in complete agreement with Frank, Max and everyone else who states that the groups were the problem. If you want to bring a group of your vehicles to Cars and Coffee you MUST arrange it with John Clinard and Freeman Thomas. I like S2000’s but it was shameful what they did today. I paid more attention to the miata with an S2000 swap then anyother S2000 there. Why? Because that was original, different, not stock, etc. Especially already knowing full well that the organized Marque was NSX, for them to come crash the party without being invited is definitely going to leave a bad taste in the mouth of most people. I for one am extremely dissapointed. Please respect the wishes and rules of the hosts so we can make sure this event continues for may years to come. We don’t want the party cancelled because of a few bad eggs.
I have to agree with previous comments about the lot looking similar to that of a dealer parking lot. Seeing the number of amazing and unique cars that had to park in the parking structure was disturbing once i saw how many s2000’s were in there. I love the S2000, however, i dont go to C&C to see Hondas. There has definatley been a shift wether its style or taste. This show is no longer the show that it was when it was in Crystal Cove. The show is still amazing, its just going in a different direction. I will still be there once a month. I just hope car clubs can keep their their display of enthusisam in check in the main lot …
When I went today the first thing I noticed was the line-up of S2000s.The NSXs guys were fine, they kept to the coral and were fairly well behaved, but the S2000s were a problem, taking up too many spaces and exiting the lot too aggressively.
Hello everyone. Like everything things change. Growing up in the 70’s who would have thought Japanese cars would take over. Cars & Coffee is changing too. It’s not going to be the same. But who cares? Only the old people. It sounds to me like the oldtimers are getting all salty. My friend who shall remain nameless, travels from the inland empire. Wakes up at an ungoldly hour to be there. Most of the people that are complaining live half an hour away. They can’t get up? The show, what a joke. Get together. Whatever you want to call it is free. I don’t see why all can’t park if they get up early enough. Why will the event be cancelled if a few cars don’t show up? Truth. If you don’t have deep enough pockets you don’t count. Yet the young people are the futrue of Cars & Coffee. Without the BMW & Audi, And tuner car crowd you would have no show. What’s sad is the show could splinter off. That would be bad for both sides. Just an opinion.drivesmile
Max;14768 wrote:Maybe notSeeing as how this was not the first time I’ve been to a CnC event where too many “normal” cars showed up, I’m sure this was something they had been thinking about for a while.
Max;14768 wrote:Maybe notThis just appeared in my In-Box
What I don’t understand is how just 3 days ago Freeman said the following on Fchat:
Quote:At the moment we are discussing all the options(pros and cons) for the future of C&C. We want C&C to have the highest quality, be fun and above all, be safe. It should be a great experience for everyone! We don’t want to exclude anyone. Our issues are it gets overpacked on nice days and some really special cars traveling a long way end up going to the spectator parking or worse, leave. Then there’s the few who have to show off when they leave. If you know one of them, please talk to them. They are jeopardizing the gathering for everyone. If it continues, John and I will stop C&C period. Most of the people who come are really respectful and a pleasure. We are all volunteers at C&C. It is “your” gathering! Help us with your suggestions on how to make it the best, highest quality, safest gathering. There are no plans to change anything other than to monitor and listen to suggestions. Write them here or come up and introduce yourself to John or I on any Saturday. C&C is a pleasure for us and we want it to be for you as well. We are planning some interesting “Special Featured Marques” in the future. We are always amazed at what shows up!Freeman
http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138377226&postcount=27
Well I guess no more Carrera GT’s, Bugattis, Lambos, Ferraris or anything else. Since those are neither pre-1978 or “special classic automobiles.” And what about all the motorcycles? Ducatis, Hyabusas and the like? That’s a shame.
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