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For those of you old enough to remember it, we used to have a show at the Crystal Cove Promenade a few years ago. The Ford guys were regular attendees and invited us in when we lost that location. Crystal Cove closed down because of the publicity the event garnered and because the residents above the shopping center couldn’t stand being woken up every Saturday before 6. The Irvine Company and some of the Promenade tenants weren’t too happy about hosting a free show either. After considering several options, we met with Ford and agreed that PAG was the best option for the future of the show. We’re grateful that Ford has helped out. The PAG venue is just about perfect but faces some of the same challenges.
One of those is the popularity of the show. As news of the show has travelled, more people want to experience it for themselves. Younger gearheads who want to meet up and see some of the more rare collectable cars, show up to see the show and often take up half the lot with their Mustangs and VeeDubs and Evos. Fun cars and great performers on a budget, but they aren’t really show cars unless you’re at a HIN event or your local burger joint. We appreciate your enthusiasm, but park in the spectator lot and walk into the show.
While nobody wants to piss people off by saying you’re car isn’t good enough for the show, you have to have some restrictions or more desirable cars will continue to be turned away every week. It’s not about getting there first. It’s about what deserves that spot in the show lot the most. At a show like this you can afford to be choosy. There are hundreds of incredible vehicles that show up every week and more that get turned away on nicer days. And that’s not even on the weekends where there’s a featured marque that brings an extra hundred cars out of the woodwork.
An example is this Saturday’s NSX gathering. It’s cool to see a huge group of the same model all in one place, but that place probably shouldn’t be a general show like C&C. It makes a lot more sense to host your own event and have those who truly appreciate that model attend. I like the NSX as much as the next guy, but there’s no good reason for those guys to take up perhaps 90 parking spots and turn away much more deserving cars that truly show the eclectic nature of this show. Make it a Honda/Acura day and bring some museum cars, race cars, super rare editions, or extremely well-tuned versions. Like the organizers did on Ferrari Day or Alfa Day. That would really be a testament to the make.
The clubs that organize these featured marque days need to use some common sense. If you request the corral, make sure you have a truly spectacular vehicle. Then bring 30 special examples and tell everyone else who’s coming from your forum or club to park in the spectator lot. There’s a certain amount of pride that follows being named the featured marque and those guys and gals naturally want to show their support with a huge turnout, but be considerate of the regular attendees. I think John and Freeman should deny future corral requests if a particular group can’t follow the rules. I’d even start turning away featured cars if they overflow the corral. And don’t even get me started about what to do if those featured players (or anyone for that matter) are disrespectful entering or leaving.
This isn’t a dragstrip. There are idiots who continue to ignore the warnings and sit on the street every week to take pictures and shoot video. The world sees this show within minutes thanks to the internet. We definitely don’t want people showing up looking for that kind of asinine behavior, thinking that they will see burnouts and donuts every week. Drive like you’re leaving church on Sunday. Leaving at any speed above idle is just criminally dangerous. Sitting on the curb or standing in the grass to shoot the cars leaving is just plain dumb. It encourages reckless driving. If you want pics of cars taking off hard, head up to Pomona.
The other issue with non-featured groups taking up whole rows is a little trickier, but the same rules should apply. I love my little Mazda and wouldn’t mind seeing a dozen or more of them get together for a Saturday meeting, but there’s no way in hell I’d suggest showing up at C&C together. You have to respect the nature of the show and not thump your chest and say, “We like our cars and we don’t care if anybody else does.” If you’re an enthusiast, use some common sense and think long and hard before grabbing a spot in the show lot. If you notice that everyone seems to walk right past your car, or heck your whole row every week, chances are you’re not the right kind of car for this venue. Sure you might have kids at your college or someone at the gas station complimenting your ride all the time, but at C&C you’re stepping into the big leagues. That makes you the smallest fish in a really big pond. You look like an idiot for thinking your car is better than it is.
Nobody who runs this show wants to be a prick and exclude certain cars from the show, but the groups aren’t doing a very good job of regulating themselves. I’ll help with some guidelines because everyone seems to be asking me. 😀
* If you see at least two other cars just like yours at school or work every day, park in the spectator lot at C&C.
* If your vehicle is there for the sole purpose of selling some of your products or services, you should ask about sponsorship options before coming to the show. Hint: There aren’t any.
* If the only thing that makes your car “show-worthy” is a set of 22-inch rims, a 10-inch lift kit, 20 vinyl decals, a body kit or Lambo doors, don’t bring it here.
* If you have a brand new hotly anticipated vehicle that you think everyone wants to see but isn’t a supercar, park in the show lot for a couple of weeks and then take it out back.
* That means cars like the EVO X, BMW 335i, Mustang GT, Mazdaspeed3, VW R32, Subaru WRX/STi, Dodge Charger/Challenger/Magnum, Chrysler 300, smart, MINI, et al. Cool cars, but I see hundreds of them all over the place now.Although a lot of the younger members on forums like this will certainly disagree, you aren’t the target audience for the show. Being a member of this forum or knowing Josh and Brent doesn’t mean it’s your show. You are guests and the management reserves the right to refuse service to anyone. You have every right to be upset by this kind of stance, but the people who created this show and who allow everyone into their lot every Saturday deserve a lot of praise and respect. If you don’t like it, find another venue and start your own show.
You make some very valid points, especially if space is at a premium.
Hats off to you for being bold enough to post this.Things are a little different here in Las Vegas (luckily we seem to have plenty of space every weekend), but we still get the folks that just bought the new highly anticipated cars like the GTR from Nissan, craving attention like it’s going out of style. (Stickers galore etc).
The vintage, classic, exotic, or rare cars would certainly belong on center stage in my opinion.
I feel that cars and coffee has become immensely popular over the last year. This is a great thing, but I agree we are running into an issue where space is becoming a priority.
I thinking holding it at 7-9am was a great idea, because it kept the idiots out… Evidenced by the last few weeks, with all of the burn-outs and other lapses of judgement, it appears the idiots are waking up earlier.
While I own what I think to be a rather exotic car (albeit not high dollar), I have no qualms parking it in the spectator lot- though I do try to get there before 7:15am and I try to bring it only occasionally. What does bother me is missing some of the fantastic cars because they were forced to park in the spectator lot.
I agree policing which cars can show is really in the spirit of what cars and coffee is about. I also don’t feel that telling people with “common” cars that they shouldn’t come will not work either. What they really need is a bigger lot. Is there a reason we can’t turn the spectator lot into the show lot?
@TheDingo8MyBaby 14629 wrote:
…What they really need is a bigger lot. Is there a reason we can’t turn the spectator lot into the show lot?
The actual spectator lot at the Ford campus is smaller than the Mazda lot we currently use. It’s the narrow lot in back and the lot closest to Alton on the other side of the parking structure. The large open lot across the street belongs to the Irvine Company and generally isn’t available to the showgoers. Some folks park there anyway if the chains are down, but technically we don’t have permission to use that lot for the show.
frank4cars;14637 wrote:The actual spectator lot at the Ford campus is smaller than the Mazda lot we currently use. It’s the narrow lot in back and the lot closest to Alton on the other side of the parking structure. The large open lot across the street belongs to the Irvine Company and generally isn’t available to the showgoers. Some folks park there anyway if the chains are down, but technically we don’t have permission to use that lot for the show.Yes, the lot across the street is property of Irvine company. Using that has a few issues. One, it would need to be rented at a great expense each week. Second, with there not being an crosswalk right there, you know people will jay-walk (as they do now) rather than go down to the crosswalk at either end of the street. There would be lots of foot traffic going back and forth across the street to get to the food and restrooms. So this presents safety hazards, as we know some people don’t follow the rules when leaving the lot. Thirdly, it would have to be monitored, staffed, cleaned up, etc.
In regards to Frank’s (and Max) arguments. Generally speaking, I try to stay out of these threads. However I see both sides of this argument as valid. This is strictly in regards to marques. For instance, there will be lots of excited people tomorrow when they get a chance to see that large number of NSX’s. Others, will care less and walk right past them. It would be one thing if Marques were every week, but they aren’t. They are once every couple of months. With the show being EVERY week its ok to mix things up and have “special” weekends. Ultimately marques get approved by John Clinard. So if he thought it was a big deal or didnt agree then he wouldnt allow them.
In regards to which cars should be allowed into the show. I feel no car should be turned away. However, I also agree with Max and Frank in that the show space is very limited and most weeks is at capacity. Therefore it is essential to ask yourself when planning to show your car, the same questions Frank posed.
frank4cars;14618 wrote:* If you see at least two other cars just like yours at school or work every day, park in the spectator lot at C&C.
* If your vehicle is there for the sole purpose of selling some of your products or services, you should ask about sponsorship options before coming to the show. Hint: There aren’t any.
* If the only thing that makes your car “show-worthy” is a set of 22-inch rims, a 10-inch lift kit, 20 vinyl decals, a body kit or Lambo doors, don’t bring it here.
* If you have a brand new hotly anticipated vehicle that you think everyone wants to see but isn’t a supercar, park in the show lot for a couple of weeks and then take it out back.
* That means cars like the EVO X, BMW 335i, Mustang GT, Mazdaspeed3, VW R32, Subaru WRX/STi, Dodge Charger/Challenger/Magnum, Chrysler 300, smart, MINI, et al. Cool cars, but I see hundreds of them all over the place now.Seeing cars like the GT1 is what makes Cars and Coffee special. You don’t see cars in person like that everyday. Like Frank said, all the other cars are cool, but they are everywhere, in every workplace and mall parking lot, and therefore not very special. It may be special to you as the owner, but not to everyone else.
Max, your thoughts?
Agreed. thumbup
We will get with John and Freeman and put something together. Not sure if it will do any good, but nonetheless at least we have done our part.
I don’t know about all these answers, they seem a little self-righteous.
Who’s worthy and who is not is a matter of opinion, don’t you think?
I mean I don’t like seeing all one brand of car either, I like the diversity
of all models both old and new.
I like the new technology in the newer cars so for me that’s what I go to see, I’m not a big fan of muscle cars but it’s nice to see them there, and I can appreciate what it takes to build that muscle car.
So that’s my 2 cents…….Frank, well written and well put.
See you Sat.
RMS TR6Frank,
While I can see your point of view. I do not agree.
The same people you are complaining about are the same people that are making this event more popular and in many ways better. Popularity, size, and quality are all increasing due to the accessibility of this event to the masses. Not to mention the word this event gets on the popular late model car forums (read M3, Porsche, NSX, Audi, Merc)
In terms of who should show their car off and who should not… well that is such a hard line to follow. Yeah, I do not go this event hoping to see a bone stock Honda Accord sitting in the show area, even though it does make me happy to see the owner wiping her down with a diaper with a even bigger grin on his face. The car might not be something special but the owner sure is and I am more than happy to share a coffee with him. Sure, he took a spot up in the parking lot that a Lambo could have parked in. Or, some super rare British roadster. But hey, they dont say “get there early because spots fill up fast” for nothing.
From my point of view, this is a light hearted event. Not a free Pebble Beach Concurs class event. Besides there are many unique cars that constantly take up show space that, in my opinion, represent the small minority of what the average spectator comes to see. Is it ignorant to say that I do not think many people come to see old TR’s and Austin’s? It is! And that is why it is getting ridiculous to try and declare who should be in the event and who should not. Because, not everyone comes for the same thing. The 20-30 year olds come for the nicely modded late model cars and the uber exotics, the old fogeys sit and stare at there 60 era Porsches and TR’s with twinkles in their eyes. All this whining and complaining is only going to make things worse. Plus, it makes the event less fun.
If the show parking lot started to get enforced I can tell you a few things are going to happen. First of all, all the car forums like the M3 forums, NSX fourms, Porsche Forums, and Exotic Car forums would stop orginizing events for C&C. Popularity would fall and quality would go down. Word is passed via the internet and via only the most popular car sites that tend to curtail to mostly late model cars. It certainly is not passed through this, we must admit, lightly travelled forum.
If we all must suffer the woes of having to see a bunch of NSX’s so that word of the event is spread to the far reaches of the internet, then in my opinion, that is small price to pay.
Finally on a seperate note. The reason why the spectators line up at the exit is to listen to the cars leave. Not listen to them burn out or take off super fast but to actually listen and witness cars like Enzo’s, Porsche GT1’s, GT3’s, and muscle cars actually moving instead of sitting on a show room floor. Its also a great time to get some pictures of an actual exotic or a car that should be in a museum moving under its own power instead sitting on some polished floor under flood lights. And for some, its a time to get a feel for what some peformance modifications are going to sound like on their own M3, NSX, S4, 911 etc etc….. this is an event truly made for everyone no matter what they drive.
Best piece of advice, If you want to show your car, get there early!!!!!
Jason
Well spoken Max and thanks for the dollar…………
@JBone 14675 wrote:
…The same people you are complaining about are the same people that are making this event more popular and in many ways better. Popularity, size, and quality are all increasing due to the accessibility of this event to the masses. Not to mention the word this event gets on the popular late model car forums (read M3, Porsche, NSX, Audi, Merc)
Jason, I have to disagree with you about these people making the show better. Far from it in fact. They are the problem we are trying to address. If these guys want to attend to check out the show, great. Just park in the spectator lot. The point is that this event doesn’t need to grow. It already has a large enough base of guys who have been coming since the early days of Crystal Cove. Personally, I’d prefer it if people from the forums didn’t talk it up and organize trips to the show. If the BMW, Mustang, Mopar, JDM guys get upset, that’s fine. We don’t need them at the show. That’s not being mean. That’s being honest about setting some boundaries to keep the show healthy. I like the eclectic mix of cars as much as the next guy, but there is already incredible diversity in the core group of attendees. In your Accord example you are making my point. If you want to see that kind of enthusiasm for a regular car, talk to the guy in the spectator lot or at the grocery store parking lot, not at a show that has traditionally been devoted to exotics, classics, muscle cars, hot rods, race cars and the latest supercars. That might not be what you come to see and it might not be what those forum members want to see, but that is what this show has to offer. If you would prefer seeing those other cars on a weekly basis, organize your own event. Maybe a Cars and Rockstar or something. And so far as watching the cars leave goes, my point stands. Sitting on the curb encourages asinine driving and is dangerous. I don’t think your desire to watch someone take off should supersede the safety of the guests and the future of the show. There are signs posted for a reason and just because there are a lot of idiots who ignore them doesn’t mean you should be there either.
Mia culpa. My name is Steve aka “YellowHaze”. I’m an NSX owner and the guy who planned, coordinated, and obtained approval from John for having a marque event for the NSX guys- NSX Prime. Hello all!
Some interesting points were brought up in this thread. Frankly, I can appreciate most of them. I, too, walk past the 10th Nissan GTR in favor of the vintage Pantera. However, who’s to say what is interesting and what is not? Some favor the 1950’s era cars. I prefer performance sports cars. Tis what makes the world go round and why this event is so special. Guess you can tell I prefer the “open, anything goes” rules.
We will have a large NSX turnout. Our designated lot is the corral area plus most of the Mazda lot, a parking area not typically used for C&C. John made special arrangements for our group, which I think is a nice compromise. When our group size grew large, I was concerned about taking up too much of the usual show lot space.
The two best things about the C&C phenomenon are (1) the cars and (2) being among car enthusiasts and making new friends. I enjoy both equally. Tomorrow should be a particularly busy day and fun for all. The success of C&C will hopefully not be its demise.
Respectfully submitted,
SteveHow many show lot spots are there ?
Maybe entrance to show lot is limited and monitored in a very non judgemental way. Special Marque day gets 50 spots. Car #51 parks outside. Beyond that keep a sheet on a clipboard. Ford #1 shows up and after that 24 more Fords come in Ford 26 and others park outside. Maybe if a guy with the only GT40 comes he and a Mustang owner negotiate about the Mustang giving up the spot. BMW 1-25 get in then others outside. Suburu 1-25, Jag 1-25. Ferrari 1-25, Lambo 1-25. Triumph 1-25 etc etc etc.
As time goes by people will get the picture maybe and amounts can be adjusted to give heavily represented marques a bit more space as it is determined that 25 Triumphs never show up except on a special marque day.
I like the idea of getting owners to ask themselves what is special about this car but I am uncertain it would work. With a restricted number of spots per marque and any marque allowed in nobody is placed in the position of telling someone else their ride is not good enough to show.
First come first served but on NSX day there will be only 50 max NSX and on any other day only 25 Acuras total. Maybe the number per marque is 12 or 8 rather than 25.
Just a thought
@frank4cars 14693 wrote:
Jason, I have to disagree with you about these people making the show better. Far from it in fact. They are the problem we are trying to address. If these guys want to attend to check out the show, great. Just park in the spectator lot. The point is that this event doesn’t need to grow. It already has a large enough base of guys who have been coming since the early days of Crystal Cove. Personally, I’d prefer it if people from the forums didn’t talk it up and organize trips to the show. If the BMW, Mustang, Mopar, JDM guys get upset, that’s fine. We don’t need them at the show. That’s not being mean. That’s being honest about setting some boundaries to keep the show healthy. I like the eclectic mix of cars as much as the next guy, but there is already incredible diversity in the core group of attendees. In your Accord example you are making my point. If you want to see that kind of enthusiasm for a regular car, talk to the guy in the spectator lot or at the grocery store parking lot, not at a show that has traditionally been devoted to exotics, classics, muscle cars, hot rods, race cars and the latest supercars. That might not be what you come to see and it might not be what those forum members want to see, but that is what this show has to offer. If you would prefer seeing those other cars on a weekly basis, organize your own event. Maybe a Cars and Rockstar or something. And so far as watching the cars leave goes, my point stands. Sitting on the curb encourages asinine driving and is dangerous. I don’t think your desire to watch someone take off should supersede the safety of the guests and the future of the show. There are signs posted for a reason and just because there are a lot of idiots who ignore them doesn’t mean you should be there either.
Well part of the problem might be the paradigm shift taking place at Cars and Coffee. The problem for you is that this is not the Crystal Cove meet anymore. The show has obviously gone through/is going through an evolution. I promise you, there are probably more kids at this show drooling over the 7 GTR’s that show up than there are British Roadster fanboys. The late model car scene has taken over the event….
Maybe its time for you to make a new event… we can call it Cars and Ensure… or maybe Cars and Ovaltine…..Kidding…totally kidding!
I just think its funny you automatically assume I am young guy so I am just throwing the stereotyping back…..
I am just kidding…. anyways, I just go to the event and enjoy it, I just think its wrong to start policing it and it makes the event less fun….
Jason
Very funny, Jason. I didn’t include you in the group, but I understand your sentiments. The issue is that the newcomers are taking over and forcing the old timers (like me I guess) out. That isn’t right. If they want to meet and show off their cars, they shouldn’t take over an existing show. The guys who started the show and who have been attending for several years deserve some respect. Many of them have stopped coming because the lot has been filling up with more and more of these kinds of cars. If that trend continues, the budget performance and tuner groups would be the only ones at the show every week and there wouldn’t be a Cars and Coffee anymore.
Think of it like this: Imagine your friend opens a burger joint so you guys can hang out at your own place. It gets really popular. All of your friends know this is the place to be. You love hanging out with your friends and eating the great burgers. News starts to travel about this amazing burger place. Before long the crowds get huge and you can hardly get a seat anymore. It even starts attracting senior citizens that like to show up early. They take all of the seats and stay all night. Before long they ask the owner to start playing different music and offering different menu items. You guys stop going because it’s always too crowded and you don’t like the new menu. This isn’t right. Your friend opened the shop to cater to his friends, not these old folks, but they are customers and deserve a seat, right? Because you guys have stopped coming your buddy doesn’t like working anymore and considers shutting the place down.
Your buddy has the right to enforce the “We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody” sign on the door. He didn’t open this place for them, he did it so he could hang with you guys and give you guys a place to meet and eat. If the old folks don’t like the menu, they can go to another restaurant down the street. There is no good reason for them to ask for the owner to change what he does and does well. There were plenty of people who liked things just the way they were and didn’t start demanding changes. It would be perfectly fine for your buddy to say, thanks for stopping in but we don’t serve that here, try the place down the road.
The guys who started Cars and Coffee are the burger place owner. We are their friends. You can’t muscle in and try to make yourself at home at somebody else’s party. That is the quickest way to get the show shut down. If the people they opened the shop for aren’t happy and stop coming, there is no reason to keep it going anymore. I’m only asking that the newer attendees realize that they might not be in charge just because they have numbers and enthusiasm. It’s not their property and they need to mind the wishes of the founders.
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