[JOHN MARTIN]

@RADriver 67460 wrote:

To avoid douchebag elitist pricks, I probably should.

Nice stereotyping.

I think you and Kevin need to agree that neither of you will ever change the others mind, and move on. There’s probably a PM function on this board and you can duke it out all you want. Your view is that you get there first, it’s yours. Kevins view is he’d like to see a wide variety, with exceptions made for the truly unusual. We all understand both views. Can we move on?

[U.P. conductor]

@TXGuy 67474 wrote:

Nice stereotyping.

I think you and Kevin need to agree that neither of you will ever change the others mind, and move on. There’s probably a PM function on this board and you can duke it out all you want. Your view is that you get there first, it’s yours. Kevins view is he’d like to see a wide variety, with exceptions made for the truly unusual. We all understand both views. Can we move on?

Hear! Hear!

Bur I will say there are some pretty hateful things said about we elitists.

[Anonymous]

@RADriver 67460 wrote:

Challenge failed. A) Small town; B) It looks like you went out of your way to avoid driving around with your eyes open.

Oh, I’m sorry. I believe you said drive around my area. MY AREA IS A F**KING SMALL TOWN. If you’ve ever been to Johnson County, you won’t find cities like Arlington or Southlake or whatever.

And no, I did NOT go out of my way. Do you expect me to be able to take pictures of EVERY SINGLE Mustang/domestic driving the opposite way with an iPhone while driving? No. I’d probably get in a wreck.

@RADriver 67460 wrote:

And not one you photographed has ever shown up to C&C.

While those have not, others just like it have. Do you expect every single Mustang to come to C&C? Besides, I live two hours away from Classic anyway.

@RADriver 67461 wrote:

I don’t know if *you* realize this (despite it already being pointed out in plain English) but the organization you keep pointing out is a LOOSE GUIDELINE, not a hard rule. If no domestics showed up next month, do you think their section would go unfilled? No. Some other make and model would take those spots. That is how it works. If the space is empty, you park in it.

Wanna know why the organization is a “loose guideline”? Because people like you who think you can park wherever the f**k you want if you get there early disregard the flags and signs set up denoting what row is set aside for each type of car. YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND. First come, first serve applies to a certain extent. Get there early so you can get spots IN YOUR ROW, NOT ANYWHERE IN THE F**KING LOT.

Here is a satellite picture of Classic BMW’s show lot. It shows the sections that you don’t think exist, but actually do. Count the spaces for each section yourself if you want to. Keep in mind, the numbers shown only include painted spaces.

See how many spaces Mustangs alone get, compared to everyone else? They get more than twice the amount of spaces of anyone else, and that group STILL wants more spaces. Eventually, we can just rename this event Mustangs and Coffee.

@RADriver 67461 wrote:

Last time I walked the domestic section, I saw very few, if any, “stock cars.”

Yeah…you’re probably right. It probably consisted of stuff like this, which you consider “variety”:

I’m done arguing with you. I and numerous others have tried to get points across to you, but you don’t understand ANY of them.

If you want to see cars with hood scoops, bodykits, Walmart rims, fartcans, spoilers, and decals, and don’t want to see any exotics, go to Ricekiller. Plain and simple.

[Afrank1686]

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

Here is a satellite picture of Classic BMW’s show lot. It shows the sections that you don’t think exist, but actually do. Count the spaces for each section yourself if you want to. Keep in mind, the numbers shown only include painted spaces.

See how many spaces Mustangs alone get, compared to everyone else? They get more than twice the amount of spaces of anyone else, and that group STILL wants more spaces. Eventually, we can just rename this event Mustangs and Coffee.

Just wanted to thank you for posting this picture. It really puts things into visual perspective. At least it should. The fact that one single model, not make, but MODEL, alone is alotted that many spaces is the problem right there. One would think that there are no other Mustang meet ups around so they all come here, but you are right, there is Ricekiller.

Let’s not forget that C&C is a charity event as well. There are plenty of people who come just to spectate. The less variety, the less spectators there will be and the less money will be raised for the charity of the month. It is the best interest of nearly all to have as much variety as possible.

[morganjackson]

@TXGuy 67474 wrote:

Nice stereotyping.

It ain’t stereotyping if you’re callin’ it like you see it. He went out and shot a bunch of pics of cars that you’ll never see at C&C as though they were representative of the domestic section at this event. They aren’t. He lost himself the argument and doesn’t even realize it.

[morganjackson]

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

Oh, I’m sorry. I believe you said drive around my area. MY AREA IS A F**KING SMALL TOWN. If you’ve ever been to Johnson County, you won’t find cities like Arlington or Southlake or whatever.

Doesn’t matter. You lost the debate and you don’t even know it. You said (and I’m quoting directly here) That you wanted to see at C&C cars you can’t see just by going up to the local Walmart. Well, while the photos you posted *are* of cars found at the local Walmart *NONE* of them are found at C&C. In fact, I’d be hard pressed to name one, current-model domestic car at C&C that isn’t modded in some fashion. I’m sure there’s one or two. But I don’t recall seeing them.

So you see, Mr. “You Won’t Understand”…..you’ve already lost yourself this discussion. By shooting pics of the junked out versions of the cars, you’ve shown that the domestics at C&C deserve to be there because they are not simply “stock domestics.”

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

Wanna know why the organization is a “loose guideline”? Because people like you who think you can park wherever the f**k you want if you get there early disregard the flags and signs set up denoting what row is set aside for each type of car.

People like me? And the other posters said *I* was stereotyping. I don’t even own a domestic car. And the people I went to C&C with had zero trouble fitting into the space allotted. Nice try though. But you still fail.

And no, the guideline isn’t a loose one because of “people like me” (who aren’t me). It’s because of the elitists who think they can show up whenever they want and still get a space. If 10 cars are waiting to get in and ANY space is available…there’s no reason to prevent those 10 cars from entering. Then, later, if a fancier car shows up late to the party — too bad. Should have gotten there earlier.

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND. First come, first serve applies to a certain extent. Get there early so you can get spots IN YOUR ROW, NOT ANYWHERE IN THE F**KING LOT.

That’s clearly your opinion. And it’s one you’ve made well-known. However, the reality is apparently quite different…otherwise we’d not have anything to argue about now would we? Sounds to me like what you’d “like it to be” isn’t how it is. And as well it shouldn’t be.

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

Here is a satellite picture of Classic BMW’s show lot. It shows the sections that you don’t think exist, but actually do. Count the spaces for each section yourself if you want to. Keep in mind, the numbers shown only include painted spaces.

See how many spaces Mustangs alone get, compared to everyone else? They get more than twice the amount of spaces of anyone else, and that group STILL wants more spaces. Eventually, we can just rename this event Mustangs and Coffee.

And once again, for the reading impaired, I’ll state the OBVIOUS — If the spaces are FILLED when the Mustangs and other domestics show up, they don’t get those spaces. Now do they? Do they? Stop your hate-filled rambling mind for one second and answer that question honestly. I’ll restate it to help you out (and since I know you like it…I’ll bold the text):

IF THE SPACES ARE FILLED WHEN THE MUSTANGS SHOW UP, THEY WON’T HAVE SO MANY SPACES, WILL THEY?

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

Yeah…you’re probably right. It probably consisted of stuff like this, which you consider “variety”:

You’ve clearly not walked down the domestic row anytime recently. I’ve taken quite a few pics of them, myself. Not one of the shots I have match a single one of the shots you have.

Oh…and you once asked me how many “high-end” cars I see on a daily basis — Today I paid attention…just for you. That lovely classic Ferrari you’d love to see? Saw it. Parked right in the middle of the Shops at Legacy. I also saw a mint-condition NSX, and a few others.

Know how many customized domestics I saw? A freakin’ ton. Sure, I saw lots that weren’t custom as well. But I counted “customized domestics” numbering at least two or three times the number of higher-end cars I saw. Based on ration alone, they should have more room. And that’s not even taking into account the first-come, first-served rule.

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

I’m done arguing with you.

Outstanding. So I won’t be subjected to anymore straw man arguments and logical failures and general whining? Thank you so much!

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

I and numerous others have tried to get points across to you, but you don’t understand ANY of them.

No. You’ve whined and you’ve cried about the way it should be *according to you*. That’s all you’ve done.

@Kevin 67488 wrote:

If you want to see cars with hood scoops, bodykits, Walmart rims, fartcans, spoilers, and decals, and don’t want to see any exotics, go to Ricekiller. Plain and simple.

Having already checked that website, it’s clear once again that you haven’t got a clue what you’re talking about. No surprise there.

Have fun looking at the STOCK high-end cars you’ll never afford. The rich love rubbing their wealth in the faces of commoners like you. Me? If I want to see yet another Gallardo…I’ll buy a magazine or do a google image search.

[Anonymous]

RADriver, I’m just going to make this short and sweet….YOU’RE A F**KING IDIOT!!!!

And it’s the idiots like you who are ruining and making this show bland for nearly everyone.

[Anonymous]

@RADriver 67501 wrote:

He went out and shot a bunch of pics of cars that you’ll never see at C&C as though they were representative of the domestic section at this event.

Oh, we’ll never see 4th-5th generation Mustangs at C&C? Here you go buddy.

[Anonymous]

@RADriver 67502 wrote:

So you see, Mr. “You Won’t Understand”…..you’ve already lost yourself this discussion. By shooting pics of the junked out versions of the cars, you’ve shown that the domestics at C&C deserve to be there because they are not simply “stock domestics.”

Yeah…tell me how many of theese look customized to you.

And how can I lose an arguement when tons of people agree with me, and have the same views as me? It looks as if nobody agrees with you.

[expewlypala]

@Kevin 67530 wrote:

Yeah…tell me how many of theese look customized to you.

I can answer that one… All of them look and are!

[Anonymous]

@RADriver 67502 wrote:

No. You’ve whined and you’ve cried about the way it should be *according to you*. That’s all you’ve done.

According to me? I don’t know if you know this, but the original Crystal Cove C&C (the one that started it all) excluded cars, and the organizers had the exact same views as me.
http://socalautopics.com/blog/files/cars-and-coffee-rules-updated.php

What makes it “of interest?” How to define “unusual?” You’d get lots of opinions on that. One suggestion we’ve heard is… cars that aren’t driven to work every day. If it’s a car that is driven every day, odds are, it’s not a car that will get people out of bed at 6 a.m. on a Saturday. Of course there will be a few exceptions (we won’t penalize you if you drive your Talbot-Lotus to work), but that can be a general guide. If you remember the original Crystal Cove gathering, they did get to the point of excluding cars. We are trying to avoid that and we have only turned away cars when we are full. We rely on people to “self-police” in their awareness as enthusiasts that a car you’d see in the shopping center parking lot on a Tuesday is probably not a top priority for the exhibitor lot at C&C. Such a car shouldn’t be taking a space on Saturday morning that would require us to turn away a Goggomobil, a Jaguar XK-120, a Bugatti Veyron or a Ferrari 599. It shouldn’t prevent us from allowing a manufacturer to reveal their latest hotly-anticipated model like the Honda Clarity, Fiat 500, or Nissan GT-R, or perhaps a manufacturer’s concept car(s) or a ????? because the lot is full. Those cars DESERVE to have an exhibit spot. We’re all about interesting AND unusual cars. We’re discussing a lot of solutions including using the spectator lots more creatively.

[expewlypala]

@Kevin 67530 wrote:

Yeah…tell me how many of theese look customized to you.

I can answer that question for ya… Yes they do look customized and quite a few are highly customized! Rims, suspension, under the hood, interior, paint and performance. All things you can find easily done to our cars.

That’s the issue at hand, people that don’t drive the cars don’t know the cars or even care to look at them. The picture you posted says it all. See look 12 bumper shots there all stock, see I told ya! Shakes head, heck look at the front of the cars in the picture and you will notice almost all of there hoods are up. There up for a reason.

Shots taken at cars and coffee…. I have hundreds more if you need further verification. And if you notice we are all individually unique, different mods, styles and colors.. Far from cookie cutters..

[Anonymous]

Alright Psycho…I stand corrected. They looked stock from the picture I posted, but as you have shown me, they’re not. Also, on a different note, some nice pictures in that post.

From the C&C’s I’ve been to in the past, the Challenger/Dodge group doesn’t seem to overflow their alloted sections; it’s mainly the Mustangs. I can appreciate cars that have been highly modified like some of the Shelbys and Saleens, or some of the Challengers (I actually like the new Challenger). I remember the very first C&C I went to in September 2009, I walked down every single row including the Mustang aisle (back then they only had two). Some had some cool modifications, and it was cool to see all of the different Mustangs from different tuning companies like Roush, Saleen, and Shelby. But back then, they were stricter on what got in, and what didn’t. Today, it seems anything can get in if they get there early enough.

The problem that everyone has is that the Mustang group gets more spaces than anybody…and still want more. They get 74, and that only includes painted spaces. Nobody else gets more than 37. If you don’t believe me, there is a map posted on the previous page. 74 doesn’t seem to be enough for them.

I think the best solution Classic can come up with is to be stricter on the organization of the event. They should have staff at each row entrance, and when the section is full, have it coned off where nobody can get in. When somebody wants out, let the staff know and they can move the cones. Also when the section is full, they should radio to whoever is at the gate, and if a car is there trying to get in to go to a full section, the person at the gate has the right to turn them away. Another solution would be to take away some of the spaces alloted for Mustangs…or better yet, change the layout of the lot a bit, to something like this.

Notice how spaces are distributed more evenly than what they are now?

Also, people should have more common sense. They should think to themselves “is my car a show car?”. If Classic decides to start filtering cars, that would help the gatekeeper(s) out alot.

rasetsu is right. Less variety means less spectators, which in turn means less money for the charity of the month. It’s best for nearly everyone to have variety at C&C. We’re not saying “kick the Mustangs out” entirely. They can come out and participate, anyone can. But, people should think twice about if their car belongs in the lot. If two Mustangs showed up at the same time..one was highly modified, and you could tell by just listening to it, they should let that one in. If one has a bodykit, Walmart rims, and a whole lot of decals, they should turn it away. Classic should learn from the quote above about how they do it in Irvine, and how Crystal Cove did it.

[morganjackson]

@Kevin 67509 wrote:

RADriver, I’m just going to make this short and sweet….YOU’RE A F**KING IDIOT!!!!

And it’s the idiots like you who are ruining and making this show bland for nearly everyone.

Awwwww. You mad? LoL

You know it’s often been said that when a poster must resort to over-sized text, profanity and name-calling, he’s already lost the debate. Congrats on your defeat.

[morganjackson]

@Kevin 67529 wrote:

Oh, we’ll never see 4th-5th generation Mustangs at C&C? Here you go buddy.

When did the words “4th-5th generation Mustangs” ever come out of my keyboard? It didn’t. But nice try at a distraction.

By the way, while you’re whining about all those pics you took that don’t look customized…be sure to include the exotics…because they are rarely, if ever, customized.

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