[Anonymous]

Many of you don’t know but I’m just a contributing photographer and take the time to make most of the forum posts for cncpics.com.

Lately there has been a lot of bad behavior at Cars and Coffee Irvine. Most of the bad behavior seems to come from those drivers of mostly stock late model vehicles, which might be at home at your regular summer car shows, but are not really that special to show off at Cars and Coffee. These people seem to feel entitled to show off their cars and become offended when one suggests that they park their cars in the clearly marked exhibitor area.

Max the owner of the site, the one who keeps cncpics.com up and running for your viewing pressure wrote this letter:

For some time I have had a nagging doubt that posting the photographs from Cars and Coffee each week is contributing to the degradation of the event.

In the last few years the event has seen a considerable drop-off in quality with a corresponding increase in the number of late model Mustangs, Corvettes, Porsches, BMW’s and the like.

Last week as I left the parking lot, I exited behind a minty Aston Martin DB5 that had not managed to get a show spot.

It occurs to me that many late-model cars have now become fixtures.

We barely bother to photograph these regular attendees, very few people will find a photograph of, say, a Mustang GT with chrome wheels very interesting. Except the owner, obviously.

I would estimate that each week something close to half of the cars in the show lot could be swapped out with something more interesting that was bumped to the public parking structure.

The other observation that I would like to make is that those that bring late-model, frankly fairly dull cars, are often the ones that make the most trouble, the ones that ignore the organizers and the ones that leave with the most, erm, enthusiasm and almost always they are the loudest and most aggressive.

Coincidence ?

Maybe.

Of course if the driver of the beautiful DB5 had got there earlier, he/she would have been able to show his car.

Also, of course, had the drivers of the Macy cars been a tad realistic regarding the showability of their cars, then there would not have been an issue.

So, what to do ?

Linda, our organizer and greeter, tries to direct people to the public parking lot, but is often ignored or abused. This is pathetic behavior. But it does highlight the issue, I watched a 330i driver flip her off and then hurtle into the show lot for suggesting that his car would be more at home in the public lot for example.

Again, what can we do ?

cncpics.com served a couple of million images last month.

Are we perpetuating the problem with the publicity that we give it.

This is not a comfortable thought, I am a car nut and I love to take photographs of cars.

cncpics.com has never, ever, made a dime nor do I want t to. I have personally worn out a couple of shutter buttons (seriously) and invested in additional hardware specifically for cncpics. The traumas that we have had with hosting services that cannot handle the traffic has be expensive to resolve too.

I started the site a few years ago, specifically so that I could share the event with friends in the UK. I had no idea that within a few years it would be serving a couple of million images each month.

Nor that I would be fretting that I am somehow responsible for drawing the people that are wrecking the event.

Should I simply close cncpics.com and thus reduce the exposure that the event has significantly.

Maybe leave this open letter on the single page ?

Or what should we do ?

I am honestly looking for inspiration !

Thoughts ?

Max

This past weekend we had three especially bad incidents. The first was with the guys in this Camaro who refused to accept the fact that the lot was closed. First they got confrontational with Freeman Thomas. They said their friend was reserving a spot for them and that they should be let in. First and foremost reserving a spot for a friend is strongly frowned upon at Cars and Coffee. It completely goes against the spirit of the event. Display parking is not to be reserved and it is there for the taking to whomever shows up first. Then there was the owner of a Lexus LX470 who also became irate when he was told that there was no more parking, that the lot was full. He claimed to see a bunch of spots and proceeded into the lot even though we tried to stop him. He proceeded to circle the lot for 20 mins until he found someone leaving. He was then asked to leave and again he refused to do so. At this point Camaro guy came right over and voiced his opinion once again.
The last person to be a bad apple was the driver of a trike thing. He did a burn out right at the exit and unfortunately the police officer who serves as security wasn’t in his unit at the time to fine him. Steve, one of the other photography contributors, and I stepped in front of his vehicle and gave him a mouthful.

These bad apples are endangering the event.

Please help us keep these people from ruining this unique event.

Thanks,

-Leo

Cliff notes: Bad Apples contributing to the degradation of the event. Website contributing? Shut down site?

[1983JZR3W]

I have noticed this type of degradation as well, both in behavior and in the cars of the show. I’ve only been going for a couple years and not regularly (it’s a 6 hour roundtrip for me), but I think the regular members need to do something about this. Perhaps the security could be involved in turning people around, or have willing members form a temporary human barrier to prevent these fools from entering. That might get dangerous though…

[Anonymous]

The guy in the burgundy Camaro actually drove his car aggressively towards me as I was trying to block off the exit, through which he was attempting to enter. The guy in the Lexus SUV drove around Arlene when she was attempting to hold him until an open spot became available.

[Anonymous]

The best way to close the parking lot is to use a traffic barricade, not just orange cones or delineators. Those traffic control devices are easily run over or mover out of the way. These traffic control barricades can be rented or possibly a local vendor may even rent them to Cars and Coffee at no cost. [ATTACH=CONFIG]2824[/ATTACH]When I go to Cars and Coffee I always shoot HD video of the event but I am very selective about the cars I include in my videos. I don’t mind the new exotics or sports cars as long as those cars have something special about them. I have seen some very expensive cars parked on the show lot that are simply filthly dirty and all cars on the show lot should be very presentable.

Cars and Coffee is a living thing that exists because people continue to show up every Saturday morning. Some of those people drive in with a stock Nissan GT-R which absolutely does nothing for me personally. The next car could be a who knows what kind of car but if they pull into the lot at 6a.m. they will certainly be allowed to park on the show lot if they choose to.

I drive a one of a kind specially ordered 09 convertible Corvette that I wipe down with detail spray right after I park it on the show lot. I have never been asked to park it anywhere else but I’m there very early in the morning! Two weeks ago, I drove my wife’s Volkswagen Tiguan Wolfsburg Edition, I parked it in the parking structure next door and nobody needed to tell me, I just knew that this car was not anything special. Personally, I would be imbarassed to park a car on the show lot that was not something special or obscure about it.

I think that the only way you will be able to control this situation will be to only photograph the cars that YOU feel should be shown on your web site!

Kent Elliott
Canyon Run Videos

[1983JZR3W]

@SVT2888 57727 wrote:

The guy in the burgundy Camaro actually drove his car aggressively towards me as I was trying to block off the exit, through which he was attempting to enter. The guy in the Lexus SUV drove around Arlene when she was attempting to hold him until an open spot became available.

I figured the losers might try something like that. If you caught something like that on video, would the security on hand be willing to ticket based on your video? Something to consider. The traffic barricades sound like a good idea though.

Maybe they just need to start charging admission for a blanketed class of car…post 2000, valued under 100K when new, no significant mods besides suspension and wheels…? How you would fairly and safely enforce something like that, I have no idea.

[Anonymous]

I’m a Corvette driver and I’ve been to C&C a few times…..I’ve always parked in the parking structure. I go to see cars that I do not see everyday…I see and drive my Vette every day. It’s not that I think my car isn’t special, but frankly anything newer than a C3 is just boring for a show like C&C.

So I ask all people that drive late model Corvettes, BMWs, Mustangs, Porsches, Nissans and Camaros please join me in the public parking area….make room for real exotic or unique cars.

IMHO I see too many Ferraris too…. I don’t want to see rows and rows of 360s, 430s, Californias, and even the 458 (maybe just one or two)

[Anonymous]

Yeah its a shame we have to put up with these idiots who call themselves “enthusiasts”. I was also at C& C this past weekend and witnessed first hand the camaro guy and the trike driver making assess out of themselves. I also noticed a 2 Ferrari owners who “angled” their precious rides into the parking spaces taking up two spaces each. I informed both of them of their doing and got the “go away you bother me” hand wave off. I agree that when the main lot becomes full that there should be some sort of barrier besides the “cones”. And the idiots that take more than one space should also be informed that if they continue to take more than one space, they will be asked to leave. Just my two cents ! ! ! Wasn’t Vettel’s ride cool?

[Anonymous]

A simple barricade could be made using 2×4’s. Something like 2 sawhorses, 1 on each side of the entry with a board going across that spans the distance between them.

Even cones could do the job if you have 2 sets. If there’s a problem with cars rushing past the gatekeeper, have 2 sets configured as follows:

1. Barricade or Cone(s)
2. 1 Car
3. Barricade or Cone(s)
4. all other cars

You only move barricade/cone out of the way at a time. That way anyone that rushes past by staying on the bumper of someone will still run into the 2nd cone/barricade.

Similar to crowd control at big events, clubs, jewelry stores, etc.

The only down side I see is that running the entry requires 2 people instead of just 1 in this scenario.

[Mr.Bean]

I’m not sure how to regulate entry into the exhibit area other than a physical gate-oriented solution along with police presence. But then, you can expect a bottle neck at the gate as the gate-keeper checks each car into the exhibit lot. I happened to notice a uniformed officer walking around. If he’s willing to survey the event, maybe they’d be willing to provide a simple “police presence” to deter some negative feedback when they get turned away…

Part of the solution may include simple but frequent communication of what criteria is required to exhibit your car at C&C. Maybe use the coffee stand as a place to hand out the info (flyer.) And use the forum to drive that message for new and frequent visitors. Additionally, the organizers could create and post signs at each aisle of the parking lot listing those “criteria.” The trick is to keep doing it week after week after week.

Confrontation may not be the most successful approach…

[Anonymous]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We are visiting a subject that was discussed in depth about 2 – 3 years ago. After suggesting the same issues with “everyday” cars, the organizers were lambasted with a tirade of comment, suggestion and indignation. I don’t think they want to go “there” again. The only way to “police” these problems is by peer pressure – someone does have to say something, so thank you for making notice of the issues.

Yes, I agree C&C has degraded to an everyday stroll down PCH in Newport Beach with a few unususal, worthy and interesting cars along the way. I also agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that what some may consider “everyday” is the pride and passion of someone else. I find myself going on occasion, mostly in support of John and Linda and a chance to stretch the legs of a car that I long to be back into. But my visits are fewer in frequency for the above mentioned issues.

I would love to see the “show” lot occupied by unusual cars of interest, it would make my attendance more frequent. Somehow the current C&C attendance no longer sees the 250MM berlineta types anymore – a frequent siting at Crystal Cove. I also don’t really have any good suggestions on policing the problem except to keep the peer pressure on. If enough people make it known that something is not wanted or welcomed it will have an effect. However at the same time I suspect anybody reading this thread is part of the “choir.”

I will keep going, on occasion, continuing my support for John and Linda. But I wish the show was more interesting…

[Anonymous]

Greg, do you happen to have a link to the prior discussion? I would be interested in reading it.

It seems that the ideal would be to find some polite, non-confrontational method of letting owners of fairly common cars know that the crowd would appreciate them using the other lot to make room for something more unusual. Owners are often not near their cars to receive feedback and most attendees aren’t going to want to deliver that message in a face to face manner.

[Anonymous]

What people don’t get here as that we are not telling people NOT to show up. We welcome visitors. The people we don’t want are the ones who want to park their stock 2006 Mass Produced Snoozefest with the hood open in the SHOW lot and pretend it’s something people want to look at just because they don’t want to walk from the Spectator lot to the Show lot. Cars and Coffee Irvine has two separate lots for each group of cars. We aren’t saying that you aren’t welcome to attend the even if you’re a stock Mustang, Camaro, Camry, etc. driver. Just park in the SPECTATOR lot and enjoy the show. Don’t get all pissy when you are asked to go park in the SPECTATOR lot when you are trying to drive in the show lot either. Please stop for the greeters at the show lot so that they may direct you towards the correct area for you to park your car. Don’t drive past them with your windows up and pretend not to see them. Yes we saw you Mr. Stock 330i driver you aren’t fooling anyone. When we try to close off the lot, don’t try to drive around the cones or even worse (which I’ve seen happen many times) go and actually remove the cones so you may drive in. Also we ask for car clubs not to “INVADE” cars and coffee. Sure you can have your meet here, but either ask the organizers in advance so that they may reserve a few spots for your club or meet in the spectator lot.

Thanks,

-Leo
Cars and Coffee addict who drives 80miles round trip from his Night Shift job to Cars and Coffee EVERY weekend like a dedicated zombie in his 260,000 mile junker just to bring images from the show to all its fans.

[Anonymous]

Dear Vvan78

I tried searching back to the old thread on this subject. It has either been removed – there was quite a long and heated discussion – or it is so far back that the archive search does not go back that far.

[Anonymous]

http://forum.carsandcoffee.info/showthread.php?7248-Some-perspective-on-Cars-and-Coffee

I think this is the thread. I do not think it makes a whole lot of sense anymore though because several posts were removed during a “civil-war” of sorts.

Personally I think the CnC problems in Irvine develop around the Summer, as soon as winter hits, most of the bad apples stay in bed.

[Anonymous]

@fbody_mike 57929 wrote:

http://forum.carsandcoffee.info/showthread.php?7248-Some-perspective-on-Cars-and-Coffee

I think this is the thread. I do not think it makes a whole lot of sense anymore though because several posts were removed during a “civil-war” of sorts.

Personally I think the CnC problems in Irvine develop around the Summer, as soon as winter hits, most of the bad apples stay in bed.

Yup the summer brings the most people and most of the bad apples who think they are owed something.

[Author]

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